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daveonI like a fight as much as the next guy... actually, that's a bad thing to say. Sometimes a well structured argument between people can be amusing and interesting and certainly lead to an improved level of, if not understanding, at least the position of the other person.
However, there are some things I JUST DON'T GET - and one of them is disrupting something for no readily apparent reason.
There was an interesting post on newly minted Hugo Winner Cheryl Morgan's blog from Kathryn Kramer about "When Panel's Go Bad" about a catastrophic panel failure which left Patrick Neilsen Hayden walking out and Geoff Ryman banging his head on the desk. Interestingly I wanted to, but couldn't attend this one because I was on another item at the time. Anyway, I digress. Basically, it's an old story, somebody monopolises a panel making a point nobody gets and problems ensue. This one actually takes it to a new degree when the monopoliser called upon somebody to come up and sing a Filk song that they thought addressed their point.
Now I know my thoughts on Filk, and, in fact, any form of Folk singing are on record and in line with the views of the Patrician of Ankh-Morpork when it comes to Mime Artists. However, I do take a more live and let live approach when it comes to my many friends who are partial to a bit of Filking. Sorry, I am disgressing more. Back to point:
I could just about cope with this as fairly standard behaviour which I would address with a post about Panel Moderation - then I came across this: http://lemmozine.livejournal.com/45970.html, from the person in question where they say the following about the panel:
Monday, 12:30, I somehow was assigned to a panel called Cultural Memory, Societal Resilience and Change. Description: How important is cultural memory? Does it support or hinder social change Does it matter whether it is given up voluntarily or taken away by force? Well, I have no clue how I got on such a panel, and this topic, is, I think, broad enough to drive a planet through it, so I decided to do something very much like that. My thoughts ran thusly: cultural memory is information that is passed through generations, up until recently through oral tradition including storytelling, poetry and songs, and the modern prevalence of communication technology is either disrupting or taking over the oral tradition, resulting in rampant information overload and loss of a lot of what we had before cultural memory started moving from a localized to a global phenomenon. I'm a musician and songwriter, and a song that I honestly think offers a unique prespective on that is Kathleen Sloan's "Take It Back," so I persuaded Kathleen to come in and sing it for the audience. This panel, by the way, had a pretty good crowd. Well, one of the panelists - sorry, I didn't catch his name, and I don't think he was one of the original panelists listed in the program - was having none of this and decided to leave the room.
Firstly. If you don't really get why you're on a panel and don't have something pertinent to add - recluse yourself. I did that on Monday, or rather I took over moderation from James MacDonald on a panel on dealing with disasters - I have no clue why I was on that panel, but I know why James is, and it made more sense for James to participate.
Secondly. Screwing up a panel for your own ends isn't big and it certainly isn't clever and it sure as hell isn't fun for anybody else to watch.
Thirdly. HELLO?! MODERATOR? Yes, I'm talking to you! If a person does this - shut them down. You are in charge, it is your panel, you are there to keep things on track and drive the discussion. If somebody wants to bring up their team of performing chincillas to make a particular point - don't let them. Close them down and bring the conversation sharply back to the topic at hand.
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gaspode and I were discussing this at length on Sunday in the bar because, like me, he's a pain to moderate - however - we both agreed that it's an extremely important role and one that you should take seriously. If you want to participate at length in the conversation swap with somebody else as moderator. You really can't opine on something and control a panel - it's a nice theory but it doesn't work.
Finally... and here I may be controversial. Audience participation. I like to take part as much as the next loud mouthed, opinionated, obnoxious Brit. However, again, the moderator has a role. The Panel is there to talk and present their opinion. Don't open the floor for questions from the get go - instead you should get through the key points that you wanted to raise and note where the people with questions are and inform them politely you'll be getting back to them.
It's not about them. Yet. I like to try to run a 50/50, 60/40 rule on taking audience questions - unless the panel is dying a horrible death. I also like to note down where I see hands and when I see them - nothing hurts more than waiting for ages and seeing a person in the front row get asked before you.
Again, this is another reason for the moderator to be moderating not taking part.
Then, again, as moderator, the point of audience participation is to ask the PANEL a QUESTION. The floor isn't really a forum for somebody who wanted to be on the panel to give a 5/10/15 minute opinion statement, sing a Filk song or similar. Unless the person is making a seriously good point, don't let them. You are there to be tough.
The point of the Panel is for the panel to have discourse on the topic at hand.
It's also another reason why you need to have a means for participants to contact eachother prior to the con, and also a well run Green Room where they can confirm the roles and plan things - there is NOTHING worse than turning up at a panel item completely dry and spending the first 10 minutes working out what the topic means...
But THAT is a whole other post...
However, there are some things I JUST DON'T GET - and one of them is disrupting something for no readily apparent reason.
There was an interesting post on newly minted Hugo Winner Cheryl Morgan's blog from Kathryn Kramer about "When Panel's Go Bad" about a catastrophic panel failure which left Patrick Neilsen Hayden walking out and Geoff Ryman banging his head on the desk. Interestingly I wanted to, but couldn't attend this one because I was on another item at the time. Anyway, I digress. Basically, it's an old story, somebody monopolises a panel making a point nobody gets and problems ensue. This one actually takes it to a new degree when the monopoliser called upon somebody to come up and sing a Filk song that they thought addressed their point.
Now I know my thoughts on Filk, and, in fact, any form of Folk singing are on record and in line with the views of the Patrician of Ankh-Morpork when it comes to Mime Artists. However, I do take a more live and let live approach when it comes to my many friends who are partial to a bit of Filking. Sorry, I am disgressing more. Back to point:
I could just about cope with this as fairly standard behaviour which I would address with a post about Panel Moderation - then I came across this: http://lemmozine.livejournal.com/45970.html, from the person in question where they say the following about the panel:
Monday, 12:30, I somehow was assigned to a panel called Cultural Memory, Societal Resilience and Change. Description: How important is cultural memory? Does it support or hinder social change Does it matter whether it is given up voluntarily or taken away by force? Well, I have no clue how I got on such a panel, and this topic, is, I think, broad enough to drive a planet through it, so I decided to do something very much like that. My thoughts ran thusly: cultural memory is information that is passed through generations, up until recently through oral tradition including storytelling, poetry and songs, and the modern prevalence of communication technology is either disrupting or taking over the oral tradition, resulting in rampant information overload and loss of a lot of what we had before cultural memory started moving from a localized to a global phenomenon. I'm a musician and songwriter, and a song that I honestly think offers a unique prespective on that is Kathleen Sloan's "Take It Back," so I persuaded Kathleen to come in and sing it for the audience. This panel, by the way, had a pretty good crowd. Well, one of the panelists - sorry, I didn't catch his name, and I don't think he was one of the original panelists listed in the program - was having none of this and decided to leave the room.
Firstly. If you don't really get why you're on a panel and don't have something pertinent to add - recluse yourself. I did that on Monday, or rather I took over moderation from James MacDonald on a panel on dealing with disasters - I have no clue why I was on that panel, but I know why James is, and it made more sense for James to participate.
Secondly. Screwing up a panel for your own ends isn't big and it certainly isn't clever and it sure as hell isn't fun for anybody else to watch.
Thirdly. HELLO?! MODERATOR? Yes, I'm talking to you! If a person does this - shut them down. You are in charge, it is your panel, you are there to keep things on track and drive the discussion. If somebody wants to bring up their team of performing chincillas to make a particular point - don't let them. Close them down and bring the conversation sharply back to the topic at hand.
Interestingly
gaspode and I were discussing this at length on Sunday in the bar because, like me, he's a pain to moderate - however - we both agreed that it's an extremely important role and one that you should take seriously. If you want to participate at length in the conversation swap with somebody else as moderator. You really can't opine on something and control a panel - it's a nice theory but it doesn't work.Finally... and here I may be controversial. Audience participation. I like to take part as much as the next loud mouthed, opinionated, obnoxious Brit. However, again, the moderator has a role. The Panel is there to talk and present their opinion. Don't open the floor for questions from the get go - instead you should get through the key points that you wanted to raise and note where the people with questions are and inform them politely you'll be getting back to them.
It's not about them. Yet. I like to try to run a 50/50, 60/40 rule on taking audience questions - unless the panel is dying a horrible death. I also like to note down where I see hands and when I see them - nothing hurts more than waiting for ages and seeing a person in the front row get asked before you.
Again, this is another reason for the moderator to be moderating not taking part.
Then, again, as moderator, the point of audience participation is to ask the PANEL a QUESTION. The floor isn't really a forum for somebody who wanted to be on the panel to give a 5/10/15 minute opinion statement, sing a Filk song or similar. Unless the person is making a seriously good point, don't let them. You are there to be tough.
The point of the Panel is for the panel to have discourse on the topic at hand.
It's also another reason why you need to have a means for participants to contact eachother prior to the con, and also a well run Green Room where they can confirm the roles and plan things - there is NOTHING worse than turning up at a panel item completely dry and spending the first 10 minutes working out what the topic means...
But THAT is a whole other post...
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no subject
Date: 2009-08-12 02:00 am (UTC)As to Green Room... I was having a chat with some other programming people this evening over dinner, and it seems that part of your Green Room problem is that US and European Green Rooms are rather different, with little interaction expected in the US model. Indeed the Green Room was planned by the Con committee to be in the Delta (ie. 10 minutes walk from the convention centre) until one of the programming team re-educated them. What you saw on Monday lunchtime wasn't Green Room half closed down, it was what they were doing all the time - ie. very little. I suspect next time I work on a Worldcon, getting a clear workflow for programming which matches our assumptions will be a pre-requisite.
That said, I think things went pretty well and we've had far more plaudits for programming than the opposite. Thankfully impromptu filk on a panel was a rarity!
no subject
Date: 2009-08-12 03:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-12 03:51 pm (UTC)Having slept on it I find the Green Room differences really weird. Even without being told what a Green Room did I had pretty much arrived on the typical European model from first principles before I even attended a con as a participant.
It's hard to image a different model not having some pretty awesome failure modes.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-17 04:24 pm (UTC)Yup.